a debacle. that is what the woman in charge of the obama care rollout admits as she's getting drilled by lawmakers. now, it's president obama's turn. i'm brooke baldwin. the news is now. >> we're not in kansas anymore. >> kathleen sebelius apologizes, but what will the president say during his speech, live during this show? as the pope is named one of the world's most powerful, a little boy didn't seem too intimidated. plus, a marine under fire for warning his brothers in war about what would become an insider attack.

>> we should be given a medal, not prosecuting him. and cnn takes you to the most unequal place in america. this place, where there is no middle class. hi, there. i'm brooke baldwin. great to be with you, but not a great day if you are kathleen sebelius. the health and human services secretary grilled today over obama care and the bungled launch of the website health r care.gov. fighting for her own life, tells the house committee today she's sorry. >> i am as frustrated and angry as anyone with the flawed launch of health care.gov, so let me say directly to these americans, you deserve better. i apologize. >> the obama care website was

only part of the three and a half hour grilling. secretary sebelius got from the house energy and commerce committee. other hot buttons today -- the cost, president obama's pledge, if you like your insurance, you can teep it, your privacy, abortion, enrollment numbers. we also heard references to red herrings, red solo cups, pinocchio, and the wizard of odds. throughout this hearing today, this health cakacare.gov site w down again. >> he said if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. is me keeping his promise? >> yes, he is. >> what do you say to mark and lusinda in my district, they had a plan, they liked it, it was affordable, but it's being terminated and now they don't have health insurance? >> insurance companies cancel policies year in and year out. they're a one-year contract with individuals. they're not lifetime plans. they're not an employer plan.

>> it's what they wanted, and i will remind you, some people like to drive a ford, not a ferrari, and some people like to drink out of a solo cup, not a stem. you're taking away their choice. i want to go to the cost of the website and talk about the website. this is what is happening right now with this website. we have had somebody in the back trying to sign on. it is down. it is not working. last week, i asked for the cost from each of the contractors that were with us last week. so can you give me a ballpark of what you have spent on this website that does not work, that individuals cannot get to? what is your cost estimate? >> so far, congresswoman, we have spent about $118 million on the website itself and about $56 million has been expended on other i.t. to support the web. >> can you provide for the

committee the list of insurers in the federal exchange who do not offer as part of their package abortion coverage? >> i will get that information to you. the website has never crashed. it is functional but at a very slow speed and very low reliability. >> do you have data on how many people in general in the united states have tried to enroll in a plan through this website? >> no, sir, we do not have any reliable data around enrollment, which is why we haven't given it to date. >> i understand that you have said approximately 700,000 people have applied for coverage via the health care.gov and state exchanges, is that -- >> they have completed an application. >> which is different than enrollment. >> that's correct. >> my question is, are you expecting, i know you don't have exact numbers yet, but are you expecting a ladge number or a small number of enrollments in the first month.

what is your thoughts on that? >> our projections prior to launch were always that there would be a very small number. >> dorothy, at some point in the movie, turns to her little dog toto and says, toto, we're not in kansas anymore. >> this wizard of oz comment from my colleague is particularly apropos given what we hear on the other side of the aisle. i don't know how you keep your cool, madam secretary, with this continuous effort on part of the gop to sabotage the aca, to scare people, and bring up red herrings. >> so the president ultimately is responsible. while i think yoit's great you' a team player and taking responsibility, it's the president's responsibility, correct? >> you clearly -- whatever, yes, he is the president. he is responsible for government programs. >> okay, so that's some of the highlights and lowlights from today, but there is one very big concern. that was brought on by a democrat today. young people, the so-called invincibles who are essential to

obama care. >> i've got four kids that all work on the internet, and if they can't get anything in five minutes, they're on to something else. what do we do, and what plans are in place by your department to encourage young people to go back and revisit that site and to make sure that we're getting young people looking at that site and accessing it? >> step number one is fix the site. because we don't want people to be invited back and then have a bad experience a second time around. i think that's absolutely right. the site is particularly important to tech savvy younger generation folks who we need to enroll. i think we have -- so fixing the site is step one. and step number two is getting information to folks that the law even exists. >> this is what is so, so important. big picture here, the young people. and many of them don't even know this law exists. and those who do know it exists

are trying to logon to a website that doesn't always work. it young healthy people cannot or do not sign up for health insurance, can obama care be saved? with me from washington, two of the best a.b. stoddard, associate editor of the hill, and ryan lizza. hello to both of you again. >> hello, brooke. >> hello, hello. you both watches the hearing along with us. i want to ask what piqued your political interest in a minute. first, this is the list we wanted from you. three ways to save obama care. we asked you both for your prescriptions. a.b., i'm beginning with you first. taking a look at your list, you say fix the website. you say, increasesebelius. >> right, you say increase penalties for opted out, and number three, launch a p.r. campaign of obama care happy stories. a.b., let me hone in on this increasing penalties for opting out. what do you mean? >> well, at this point, the

penalty for 2014 for opting out is $95 or 1% of your income, very low. that's in the out years and it will drive more and more people to reconsider the paying the penalty to the irs and actually joining the exchanges. what we need is the young and healthy people in there right now. and disincentivizing that, to use a fake, cheesy word -- >> we get what you mean. >> for the ultimate success of the program, we need those people in there right now. the sick are on the exchanges, they're staying on the website 18 hours at a time. they need insurance right now. in order to balance the risk in the insurance pools, we need the young. if we don't get them now, the prices come up right now. >> that's what's so incredibly important. ryan lizza, this is your prrpgz for saving obama care. fix the website. enough so that viewers can shop if not apply for health insurance coverage. in the meantime, bolster enrollment by phone, and have it

running smoothly by february or delay the mandate. back to number one, you liken this to shopping on amazon.com, which we all like to pick up different items but we don't alwaysicon the shopper cart, correct? >> at a bare minimum, what they need to fix on the website is the ability tocome pair plans, to shop. if you can get a little bit of information about yourself and look at the menu of aungzs you have, that is important to have to get that working as soon as possible. then the next step is, even if they can't get the enrollment function of the website working, at least once you have shopped, picked a plan, you can pick up the phone and enroll over the phone or by a paper application. you know, think of the internet back in about 1996. you know, you could look at stuff online, but you still had to call up and order it over the phone with your credit card. that at a bare minimum is where they need to get this working. obviously, it's better if you can shop and enroll in the website in one as it was intended, and then they have to have the shopping and enroll

function functional by february or i'm telling you, obama is going to have to delay the individual mandate because there's no way you can penalize people for not buying a product that they literally can't go about buying. >> okay. >> so the clock is ticking. >> let me hit pause on the conversation. got to get a quick break in. when we come back, more from secretary of health and human services, kathleen sebelius' thoughts and the fact she said today, whatever. back after this. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach.

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that soda breaks down tooth enamel. thankfully, she uses act restoring mouthwash. it rebuilds tooth enamel, making your teeth two times stronger. act. smile strong. and we're back with some of our favorites from washington, a.b. stoddard, associate editor of the hill, and ryan lizza, cnn political commentator as well. if you watched, really watched

kathleen sebelius, what was the testimony, some three, three and a half hours. to me, her facial expressions told the story. how do you think she did? >> well, i think she was dreading it, and i think it was pretty dreadful. she did the right thing to apologize right out the bat. but it is -- it is a really just an extremely awkward situation. i can't imagine what other countries looking at this hearing would think, that we would send the health and human services secretary to testify on capitol hill and she would not be able to provide the amount of people who are officially enrolled versus who have just opened an account and gotten through step one or two of many, many steps on the website. it's really quite amazing. at the same time, the members showing her that the website was down and still down hours later. it was very -- i can't imagine the administration feeling nothing but defeated. and i think it's the whole thing

is really a shame on the administration. that they would not anticipate, not only did she admit that ayoung people had to find out what's in the law, which means they failed to sell it for many years and millions of dollars, but that they would really not be in a position to be able to tally up this kind of information for congressional oversight, that they wouldn't have anticipated that these were the questions that would have been asked just even weeks into the launch is really quite stunning to me. >> we heard our deputy testifying yesterday. everybody is asking where are the numbers, where are the numbers? apparently, we're getting them in november. it's one thing to see kathleen sebelius testifying. it's going to be quite another to see the president of the united states. he's speaking live during the show from boston, the birthplace of romney care. we heard i'm sorry from sebelius. we heard her refer to this as a debacle. do you think we'll hear a mea culpa from the president of the united states? >> i don't know.

i'm in favor of political accountable. it seems like there's not much in washington these days when something goes wrong. >> on either side. >> and you have to give credit to sebelius for apologizing and taking responsibility. look, at the end of the day, the president is the president. he can't shirk responsibility. this is his program, the success. the success of his second term and his legacy will depend on getting this right. there's no point in him trying to pretend it's not his responsibility. he owns this and he knows it. i think on this question of the president and saying that if you want your insurance -- want to keep your insurance, you know, you can, this is really a major blunder by the administration in not sort of being more specific about this. this was a policy decision. they knew that roughly one or 2% of the population had stands that were substandard and were going to basically have to move into frankly better plans, right? they're giving folks more

coverage. they have better regulations, and in some cases, not all, those will be more expensive. they knew in that 1% to 2% of americans, the statement, you can keep your coverage, was not going to be right. that was a policy decision they made. and they should be out there defending it. >> that is not going anywhere. we will all be watching and waiting to see what the president says today as he speaks from boston. a.b. stoddard and ryan lizza, thank you both very much. >> thanks, brooke. coming up, cnn takes you to the most unequal place in america. a place where there quite simply is no middle class. plus, the moment you have to see, when this little boy refuses to leave the pope's stage. more on these adorable pictures. plus, a breaking twist in the mystery of a teenager found dead inside a high school gym mat. are we closer to finding out what happened in his final moments? that's next. i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really.

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major developments today in the case of that georgia teenager who was found dead in a gym mat at his high school. so the full investigative file into the death of kendrick johnson has now been released. that was by a judge's order just a short time ago. i'm talking unredacted documents, photographs from the county high school, and the surveillance video from inside the high school gym will be released later this hour. this is a huge victory for kendrick johnson's parents because they never believed that initial ruling back in january that indicated that kendrick johnson suffocated after falling into the gym mat while reaching

for a shoe. they believe their son was murdered. victor blackwell has been all over this for us from the beginning. he joins me live from valdosta, georgia. do you know what's in these files or on this video? >> well, let's talk about the video first, because it is a lot. we're told there are 40 cameras in and around the gym at the high school where kendrick johnson was found in january, upside down, dead in a mat. but when the sheriff's office went to the school to get the video, they wanted 48 hours, the last 48 hours of each of those cameras. so we could be talking about up to 1900 hours of surveillance stills and video. it will show, again, unredacted, the faces, who was inside the gym, when, what their involvement what if at any time was with kendrick or that mat. not just inside the gym. the hallways leading to the gym, the weight room, outside the building, at the doors. so there are maybe 2,000 hours

almost of video there. now, interestingly enough, what the attorneys for the family do not expect to see is the moment in which kendrick johnson went into the mat, whether he climbed into the mat or was placed into the mat, they do not expect to see that. here's what they attorney ben crump told us after the announcement was made. >> it's not going to be a home run, we think, we'll see in the videotape, but what we think the videotapes will do is get us on first base because it will then have questions that will lead us to other questions to get us from second base to third base and finally get to home plate where we will be able to put together all the pieces as to what happened to this child. >> brooke, it's not just the video but also the files. hundreds of pages now also unredacted, every person, students, teachers, janitors, parent they spoke with during this case. we know there was special attention paid to at least a few

students. and one student who was not at that high school, but of course, this is all the result of the family's lawsuit, and cnn was granted the right to intervene in its lawsuit to perment its open records request, and all those were granted. >> great reporting. thank you so much. now this. coming up here on cnn, a cnn exclusive. the most unequal place in all of america. we take you to one town that some call cursed. >> why is god keeping this town alive? if we're the poorest? >> up next, a sobering look as people from both sides of the economic divide look to close the wealth gap, only here on cnn. [ sneezes, coughs ]

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may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, and headache. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you the control you need ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza®. it's covered by most health plans. want to tell you about this cnn exclusive. it's a piece entitled "the most unequal place in america." it's a special look at devastating income inequality in this small town in louisiana. it's called east carroll parish. it's called the poorest place in the nation. this is a town where some mothers can't even afford to buy underwear for their kids. the mayor there says the town has spiraled downward for 38 years, but people in this tiny town, they're not giving up hope. >> i just pray that the holy

spirit will just move one night over this town. you have to sit back and think, why is god keeping this town alive if we're the poorest, and if we have the highest unemployment and crime rate. why won't god say, i'll go ahead and wipe this town out? they're useless. it's because he knows there's definitely hope here. that's why he's keeping us. because he believes, and he's waiting for us to start to believe in ourselves. >> this corner of louisiana near the mississippi river is a place of great natural wealth. cypress trees and corn fields and a lake so beautiful, they named it providence. but there's a curse this community can't shake. it's the most economically divided place in america.

>> john suter, we heard your voice in the piece. thank you for joining me. you helped start up this whole idea at cnn, change the list project. so you went to this town. i want to hone in because this is a huge article. hone in on these two high schools, you have the public, the private, you have the majority black, the majority white, and the graduation rates are night and day. >> you saw lake providence in the video, and there are really like two worlds, one on each side of the lake, one that is largely poor, one that is largely rich, and the gap num r numbers wise is huge, and the graduation rates are, too. 100% of the students who go to the private school, brier field company, graduate. a little less than 75% of the public school graduates do. that's more orless on par with the national average, but what's important here is we have lowered our expectations in a way. some people hear that and think, abio

obviously, the public school students will graduate at a lower rate. but there is apitude. people who have accepted these. >> like one you met who sent her children away because she was afraid her kids wouldn't graduate. >> dolores sent her kids to texas to live with a family member because she thought the schools there were failing them. >> let's take a look at what she told you. >> i love them too hard or something. i didn't want them to go, just like my daughters, i didn't want them to go nowhere, but i want them to better themselves. they were like, how are we supposed to better ourselves here if you don't want us to leave? i don't know. >> to do better, she wants to send them away. in part of this piece, you talk about also beyond the financial. it's this empathy gap between folks so far away on the spectrum, they cannot at all understand one another. >> even despite that, there's an

incredible amount of hope in this place. i do want to underscore that, but there is an empathy gap there and across the country. if you're looking up from the bottom of the ladder, a person like dolores sees no opportunity. she can't get the jobs in the top of the ladder. if you're looking down from the top, i met people who think poorer people in town are lazy and need to try harder. that government problems are a crutch for them. the wider this gap gets, the more people stop understanding each other. that's the heart of the debate about income inequality. what this does to the way people relate to one another. more than just the dollar and cents. it's part of it, but the societal impacts are part of it. >> there is hope, i'll take your word for it. read the piece. john, thank you to you and your crew. you can read and watch the story. it is the most unequal place in america. you can read it at cnn.com.

halloween is the one time most of us are allowed to indulge our sweet tooth and not feel too badly about it. we still try not to go too overboard when it comes to the trick-or-treats. there's a woman from fargo using halloween's candy as a lesson in childhood obesity. instead of giving out sweets, she's passing out a letter to those trick-or-treaters she determines is a little overweight. the woman who didn't want to bow identified dialed into a local radio program to explain. >> i just want to 1e7bd a message to the parents of kids that are really overweight. i think it's really irresponsible of parents to sort of send them out looking for free candy just because all the other kids are doing it. >> i've heard enough. >> i would probably say it's nobody's business, really. >> this is more an issue parents should be working with their kids on. i -- it seems inappropriate to me. >> i mean, i remember the houses

of people trying to pass out the apples instead of the -- i don't know, butterfingers, but is this crossing the line? let's talk to ginny hut. nice to see you. >> hi, brooke. >> in reading and knowing a little about you, i understand this really hits home for you because you think maybe once upon a time you would have been on the receiving end of one of these. >> not maybe. for sure. i was a chubby kid. i would have been one of those kids targeted by this mean lady, which frankly, this is like the mean lady written about in the fixz books come to life. i think she needs to turn her lights off and pretend she's not hope because halloween is not meant for her unless she wants to be the wicked witch, which she seems to already be. >> let me read just the last line of this letter from this wicked witch, according to you. she said my hope is you will step up as a parent and rational candy this halloween and not allow your child to continue these unhealthy eating habits.

what if she's a doctor or a dietician, a nurse? would that change your opinion? >> absolutely not. then i think she was a poor doctor and a poor nurse because this is not the way to go about educating parents and children about healthy eating. we don't take halloween, the night of candy, a day of candy, to say don't eat candy. it's like saying on christmas, don't have presents, or hanukkah, don't have presents. on thanksgiving, don't eat turkey. come on. it's mean spirited. >> i have a sweet tooth like the best of them. i remember trick-or-treating and remember trying to fill up my pillowcase to the tip, tip top, and my parents saying, eat it tonight. i'm yanking it tomorrow. when you look at obesity stats, this is from the cdc, the last 30 years, childhood obesity has more than doubled, tripled in teens. curbing candy consumption isn't a bad thing. you're a mom. what's your solution? >> hold on, brooke. of course, curb candy consumption. my kids bring the candry home.

i go through it. i put it in my pocketbook. yeah, i carry candy every day of my life. there's a bag of hershey's kisses in my pocket book, but i ration it, and my children, i ration it. i think there are 364 other days of the year we can monitor the candy consumption. on halloween, let the kids be kids. by the way, she doesn't have to doll out candy. like you said before, there are prepackaged apple slices. there's baby carrots, nobody is going to like her, but feel free. giving a letter to the children is at the minimum bullying behavior. i think it's super detrimental and cruel because those kids are going to read it, and they know they're fat. i remember being halloween like, yay! >> happy trick-or-treating to you and your little one. coming up next here, this highly decorated marine officer sends a potentially life saving

e-mail hoping to warn others and save lives. now he's facing a possible discharge. we'll tell you why this marine could be punished for his courageous act. dad! dad! katy perry is coming to town. can we get tickets, pleeeeease??? tickets? hmm, sure. how many? well, there's hannah, maddie, jen, sara m., sara b., sa -- whoa, whoa. hold on. (under his breath) here it comes... we can't forget about your older sister! thank you, thank you, thank you! seriously? what? i get 2x the thankyou points on each ticket. can i come? yep.

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a frantic e-mail from one marine's yahoo account warning that his fellow marines were in great, great danger. that e-mail contained what some are now calling potentially life-saving information, but it was also classified information. for that, the marine may be punished. despite his warning, what happened next was deadly. as ivan watson reports. >> reporter: jason is not just a new york city fireman. he's also a highly decorated officer in the u.s. marine reserve. serving four tours in iraq and afghanistan. now facing possible discharge on less than honorable terms after serving 13 years.

>> for a man like jason brezler, being asked to separate from the marine corps he loved so much would be a worse punishment than jail. >> legally, he cannot speak ability the case because it's still under review, so his attorney is speaking for him. here's what he says happened. brezler was in the u.s. in the summer of 2012 when he received an urgent message to his yahoo e-mail account from his fellow marine officers in afghanistan's turbulent helmand provence. >> the subject line of the e-mail he received said, in all capital letters, with three exclamation marks, important. staur war john is back. >> he had a history with this, an afghan police commander. >> when jason was serving in afghanistan in 2010, he caused star war john, an afghan police official to be fired from the position because he was raping children. >> brezler responded, attaching a classified document, warning the marines john was a threat.

cnn has repeatedly tried to get an official account of what happened next. but every major military agency involved has declined to comment. the marine corps has only said that due to the mishandling of classified information, the major has been ordered to show cause for retention in the u.s. marine corps. they say his use of an unsecure yahoo account breached security, but other say the warning could have saved lives. >> what do you think would have happened if the commanders had listened to the advice of major brezler? >> i would have my son. >> less than two weeks after he sent the marines the e-mail warning about john. greg buckley's son was shot and killed along with two other marines at the same base. >> he was in the gym with his friends just working out. he walked in with an ak-47 giving to him by the chief of

police. and at about 8:30 at night on august 10th, executed three marines. >> the only reason that the shooter was on that base and had access to weapons is because he was the child sex abuse victim of the afghan district police chief. >> he was reportedly a teenage servant of the man. they do not know their current whereabouts. 14 months later, u.s. central command has yet to publish the results of an investigation into the incident. the only person facing any charges is major brezler for using an unsecure e-mail account. >> it's wrong to be going after the one person who seems to have done by all accounts, the right thing. >> unanswered questions leading many to come to the major's defense. >> he should be given a medal, not prosecuting him. >> we're told the marine corps is not commenting further on the case to avoid influencing the

three officers he'll face at his board of inkquiry next month. until then, he'll focus on his current job, fighting fires and saving lives. ivan watson, cnn, new york. you just heard there from a father, greg buckley sr. and just like the marine now facing disciplinary action, his son, greg buckley jr., also sensed an attack was coming, telling his dad, i am going to be killed over here, in our base. and i talked with that dad just about a year ago about his son's prediction. and what he told me live during the show is as emotional as it is chilling. >> the afghani officer was tormenting him and saying that they didn't want him there, didn't need him. just kept going, repeating it over and over again. >> you hear this on the phone. what are you saying to him? and then what does he say to you in the fateful call in november? >> well, first, he started -- he was upset.

and you know, he just said, dad, i just want to come home. he goes, these people don't love us. they don't care about us. they're cold, they're vicious people. but then out of nowhere, he turned around and said but the children, the kids are so great. after they turn a certain age, they're just vicious people through and through. me and my fellow marines, we all want to leave here. they don't want us here, and if i don't leave here soon, you have to be able to tell mom and justin and shane that i'm not going to be coming home because if i don't leave soon, they're going to murder me here. and as a father, it's heart wrenching because i couldn't get him. and i tried to talk to me and they said, it's never going to happen. you'll never get your son until they let him go. he was executed in the gymnasium with a pair of shorts and a tank top, lifting weights. this man came in, 25 years old, after they said he was 15. he wasn't. he was 25 or in his mid-20s. walked into the gym, walked over to my son, a 165-pound boy, a

marine who just turned 21, and put an ak-47 right to his chest, five feet away, and pulled the trigger, and then shot him again. at the end of the day, my justice is to another parent won't feel the heartache that i feel. i'm done inside. they tore my whole heart out. i have a hard time going to bed. i think about him every day, every minute. his brothers kill me when i look at them because they're hurt. his mom is hurt so bad, but they didn't just take my son. they destroyed my family, and i don't want other families to feel the pain i'm feeling. >> greg buckley, sr. says the marine who e-mailed the insider threat warning, jason brezler, was only trying to save lives. his case is now before an officer misconduct board. when it's more than a bad dream, be ready. for the times you need to double-check the temperature on the thermometer, be ready. for high fever, nothing works faster or lasts longer.

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continue the stimulus program, saying the u.s. economy is expanding at a moderate pace. one interesting tidbit here included in this decision, the fed claims the budget battles in washington are, quote, restraining growth. of course, the battles win continue for at least the next couple months, because lawmakers set a new deadline after ending the government shutdown and raising the debt ceiling until after the new year. the dow pretty flat, down just about 77 points, as we're a little above an hour before the closing bell. and too much demand, not enough supply. the world is in the midst of a global wine shortage. oh, yes. new research from morgan stanley says that wine production dropped more than 5% last year. folks, its lowest level was back in the '60 until now. a worldwide consumption, good news, on the upswing. experts blame the shortage on bad weather in france and argentina.

in case you're curious who is imbiding the most, france, then the u.s., then china. how strong is the smell of hot sauce? strong enough to sue, apparently. folks in this small southern california town of erwin dale are complained of burning eyes and throats and headaches. why? you're looking at it, because of this nearby food plant that produces a lain of hot sauces. the city has filed a public nuisance complaint in court demanding the company stop the production until it can reduce the order. the well known cirracha, that stuff is hot, but the founder and a spokesman for the company said they were surprised by the suit. >> not so strong, and if strong,

my walker cannot walk. >> there is no smell at all and my head is directly over the unit. >> danny cevalos joins me now. danny, help me understand, first, what exactly is a nuisance law? >> so, nuisance can take one of two forms. public or private, but the general idea is this. we have a concept called tress pass. that's when someone comes on your property and interferes with your right to possess that property, but niceance is different, about interfering with your right to enjoy your property. whereas no one has put anything physical on the property, although in the case of odors, since all odors are particulate, you could make the argument it is also a tress patres pass, bu that's basically the gist of a case like this. the government has said you have created a public nuisance with this odor that emanates from your factory and interrupts or disrupted everyone else's enjoyment of their property. >> okay, that has to be tricky because we're talking about something intangible about an

odor. according to our affiliate there, the city is now recommended that the company bring in this new filtration system. it's not cheap, like $600,000. and the company on the other hand, they don't want to install something they say they don't need. how do you think this plays out? >> well, it's difficult to say because in addition, this is not just a typical odor. sometimes you get odors that are just bad smelling. sometimes they're good smelling. >> hershey, pennsylvania, anyone? >> pardon? >> i said, hershey, pennsylvania, anyone? >> sure, wouldn't mind that as a newance. the reality is this is some weapons-grade hotness. i should know. i am a cirracha addict. the problem is once it vaporizes, there may be an issue with not just a smell but a burning sensation. after all, that's what it's doing to the back of your throat. as an odor, this might rise to the level of a nuisance, and so if it can be detected, see, it's

problematic, because how do we detect odor. everyone detects it differently. from an objective standpoint, it's interfering with the use and enjoyment of people's property, then the state or individual private citizens may have a cause of action against the factory. >> the next time you pick up a bougttle of sriracha, you'll fe bad for the folks who live next door. coming up, a list for you. forbes revealing a list of the world's most powerful people, and a couple of choices surprised us. we'll break that down for you. also, new glasses allow you to manipulate 3-d images. maybe not the best look in the world, but it's kind of cool. something that may one day replace your computer, your smartphone. you have to see this. is of a b, a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪

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day replace your smartphone, your tablet, your computer. take a look at this week's technovations. >> some day soon, anyone could be like tony stark in the movie "ironman" manipulating 3-d images in thin air. a silicon valley start-up called meta is creating augmented reality glasses that will allow you to interact with virtual objects in the real world. >> it elicits a magical effect where you could literally place holograms on the real world. >> a 28-year-old founded meta in twount twen. he lives and works with a team of 25 employees in a los altose

mansion to create what he's called the next generation of wearable computers. >> this fundamental game-changer allows you to take your phone, tablet, and soon personal computer, and project them in 3-d in your environment when they're not actually there. >> how would it work? >> the 3-d output display allows you to see the holograms in 3-d, and the scanner scans your environment and tells the computer where to place the 3-d graphics relative to the user and the world. >> the glasses could be used to sculpt a virtual vase with your fingers or play laser tag with your friends. unlike google glass, which has a smaller screen, controlled mostly by your voice, meta glasses could one day have an infinite screen controlled by your hands. >> it really represents a huge shift from 2-d computing. >> the company says the first version will be available in december for about $700. within two years, they say the

glasses will be as sleek as a pair of ray-bans. live during this show, the president addresses the obama care debacle as his deputy apologizes. i'm brooke baldwin. the news is now. >> we're not in kansas anymore. >> kathleen sebelius says the health care website has never crashed. even though it was down as she testified. as the pope is named one of the world's most powerful, a little boy didn't seem too intimidated. plus, the world is running out of wine. we'll tell you why. and -- >> we want devon to have the best christmas he's ever had. >> a town comes together for a teen who has just weeks to live.

hour two. i'm brooke baldwin. we hope you saw it right here on cnn today. health secretary kathleen sebelius says she's sorry. she's sorry for the president's bug-riddled health care website which she herself concedes is a miserably frustrating experience for those who try to use it. her fault, she said today, as her long awaited appearance on the bummy rollout. and some republicans want to know, does the blame go higher? >> so is the president not ultimately responsible? like a company ceo would be? >> sir, he's the president of the united states. i have given him regular reports, and those i am responsible for the implementation of the affordable care act. that's what he asked me to do, and that's what i'll continue to do. >> so you're saying the president is not responsible for hhs? >> sir, i didn't say that. >> okay, so the president ultimately is responsible. while i think it's great you're a team player and taking responsibility, it is the president's ultimate

responsibility, correct? >> you clearly -- whatever. yes, he is the president. he is responsible for government programs. >> my time has expired. >> all right, so that is kathleen sebelius. and in just a short time, you will hear from the president himself. take a look for yourself, you'll see the president has gloen to boston. here he is hopping off air force one. landed in the state of massachusetts. he's there to point out romney care, we remember romney care. he's going to recommend how romney care, now pretty popular in the state of massachusetts, had a bumpy rollout as well. john king is there in boston. and john king, since we are on the subject of romney care, its author is speaking out in advance of the president's speech. mitt romney has released a statement. let me read this for everyone. had president obama actually learned the lessons of massachusetts health care, millions of americans would not lose the insurance they were promised they could keep.

millions more would not see their premiums sky rocket and the installation of the program would not have been a frustrating embarrassment. so did romney care -- did it have such a bumpy rollout as well, john? >> i think it had a bumpy rollout. it had hitches and glitches, you might say. i think both democrats and republicans in massachusetts would agree it was not the size and scale of the scope of the problems we have seen with the president's. in part, perhaps because it's a government program, which is what romney was trying to make, do it state by state, not nationally. only 23 people signed up for romney care in the first month. so when the president now says we can't give you the rollout numbers, sure, there were problems early on. that's part of the president's hope today, to get people to lift their heads, look past the website problems, look past the idea of did he mislead or was he just too naive to know that many people would lose the people they had and think six months, a

year, or two down the road, the president is hoping where he stands in the hall where romney signed the law, he can convince people, it might be bumpy now, but in the long run it's good for you. that's a huge challenge for the president, especially after what we saw oin capitol hill today, as his health and human services secretary was a bit of a pinata. >> when you look at this gallup poll, let me show folks at home these numbers. public support is up just a smidge. it shows 44% of americans approve of the health care law. up from 41% in august. given everything, not just the pinata that we winlstnessed thi morning, john king, which is what we have seen since the first of aubloctober with the website launched, what do you make of that because they're trying to fix it, clearly? >> they are trying to fix it. it's ticked up a little bit because the republicans shut down the government over an effort to defund obama care. and even people who have

questions about the health care law didn't think that was the right approach. they want them dealt with sepratley. they don't want the entire government shutdown to deal with issues with the health care law. you're right about the consistency. if you look at the polling on the health care law, it's pretty locked in on a partisan breakdown. republicans don't like it, most democrats do, and there's a slice who don't think it's liberal enough. when republicans say a majority of americans oppose the law, in some polls they're right, but part of the slice are people who think the law didn't go far enough, not people who didn't like the law just being there in the first place. >> i'm going to talk a little more with dr. gupta seating next to me, but john king, my friend from dorchester, massachusetts, let's talk about the red sox. if they clinch in game six, this will be the first time they win at home since 1918. something tells me you're not just in town to cover the president? >> i was planning this trip before we knew the president was

coming to boston, full disclosure, the most transparent chief congressional correspondent in history. no, i'm here, hopefully the red sox get this done tonight so i can come back to work in d.c. tomorrow, no, no, baseball first and policy and politics second on this day, my friend. >> appreciate the candor. john king, thank you very much in boston. back to the secretary this morning on capitol hill, because there was an interesting moment during kathleen sebelius' testimony. a republican from colorado, congressman corey gardner was hammering sebelius about her health plan, and he wanted to know this. why she wasn't losing her federal employee coverage and buying insurance on the obama care exchanges. so this back and forth got pretty heated. i'm going to play a brief part of the argument. listen closely to what secretary sebelius says. >> if i have affordable coverage in my work place, i'm not eligible to go into the marketplace. >> with all due respect, madam secretary, i would encourage you

to be just like the american people and enter the exchange and agree to find a way to do that. >> it's illegal. >> illegal. chief medical correspondent drdr. dr. sanjay gupta is here. illegal. is that right? >> it's interesting. it's not illegal in the way she described it, meaning she said she's getting her health care through the federal government. you can choose to forego your health care you get with your employer, in this case, the federal government, and join the marketplace. it would be silly for any employer they're paying a large part of your premium. that's how it works. you would be picking up the tab yourself. why somebody who has a job would do that, it doesn't make sense. it's not illegal, but just sort of a silly question. she actually turned 65 in may. which means she's now a medicare recipient. you cannot deny yourself medicare. she's going to get that regardless. if she was talking about medicare, it would be illegal. you can't leave medicare.

>> healthcare.gov webside was down at the time she was testifying in congress. the administration got warnings about the website, even before the launch date. do gueye knwe know when the pre knew that? >> it's interesting, you're hearing different things about when warnings were going and did they go to the white house, directly to the president? i asked her specifically about this just last week. >> do you know when he first knew that there was a problem? >> well, i think it became clear fairly early on. the first couple days. >> not before that, though. >> no. >> not before october 1st, no concern in the white house or hhs? >> i think we talked about having testing going forward and if we had an ideal situation and could have built a product, you know, in a five-year period of time, we would have taken five years, but we didn't have five years, and certainly americans who rely on health coverage didn't have five years for us to wait.

>> so what's the answer? >> a lot of that you heard today. what it sounds like is she knew there were problems. but she went to the contractors and said, october 1st, good or not? and what she says is that she heard good to go october 1st, which is why she told the president october 1st was a go. it's tough. it's hard to know exactly what happened, what communication there was, if it went to the white house, did it go all the way to the president? i don't know if we'll ever have a great answer, but she said he did not know prior to october 1st there was a problem. >> sanjay, thank you. coming up, a man calls 911. when police arrive at the home, they make a horrifying discovery. we're on the case. plus, the list from forb said is out. it reveals the world's most powerful people, including the pope, who -- we love this video -- got a little pienlt-sized unexpected visitor on the stage who doesn't want to go away. you'll see the surprising power list. also this -- >> never seen anything like it.

i'm real thankful. but it's for devon. >> grab the tissues. a town comes together for a teenager who has weeks to live. this is cnn. so there i was again, explaining my moderate to severe chronic plaque psoriasis to another new stylist. it was a total embarrassment. and not the kind of attention i wanted. so i had a serious talk with my dermatologist about my treatment options. this time, she prescribed humira-adalimumab. humira helps to clear the surface of my skin by actually working inside my body. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance. and the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months.

humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. make the most of every moment. ask your dermatologist about humira, today. clearer skin is possible. we got the ball rolling. in cities across the country, coca-cola joined with communities and local leaders to roll out a summer filled with activity. from atlanta to l.a., people all over found that getting moving can be fun. in fact, it can be a day at the beach!

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to talk with an insurance expert about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? a gruesome scene in a south carolina home. six people including two children and the suspected shooter found shot to death. last night, a man called police saying he felt edgy, might turn himself in. a s.w.a.t. team rushed to this home, but it was too late. the sheriff says 27-year-old brian sweat killed his girlfriend, her parents, and two of her nephews before killing

himself. >> what you see, a horrific scene like this, it never leaves you. it's with you day in and day out for the entire time. >> apparently, the suspect did release four other children before the shooting began. the sheriff says he was upset over a custody battle concerning his 7-month-old daughter. a moment captured on tape between a little boy and pope francis. the pope, he was taking questions. you know, as popes do when the little boy wandered up onstage, refused to leave, even when enticed by candy. he said, no thanks, i'd rather the pope, please. the pope didn't seem to mind. then this happened.

>> pope francis may be new to the job, but his influence has not gone unnoticed. forbes has just named him one of the world's most powerful people. pope francis on the list at number four. take a look, behind vladimir putin, shocking a lot of folks with the top position. president obama at number two. number three, xe jinping, number four, the pope, and five, the woman in the headlines a lot this week, german chancellor angela merkel. joining me is the executive editor of forbes magazine. michael, nice to see you. let's talk about putin just a minute. but do me a favor, lift the veil. how do you all at forbes arrive at this list? >> that's a really good question. it's kind of a complicated process, and i'll give you the really short version. >> okay. >> it's the collective votes of eight editors on four different

categories. we compile a short list of about 150 candidates. and then there's one person on the list for every 100 million people in the world. the categories are essentially financial resources relative to your peers. how many people do you have power over, whether that's adherence if you're a religious leader or population if you're a world leader. are you powerful in multiple spheres. somebody like mayor bloomberg is a politician, a billionaire, a major philanth rupith, so so he popular in different ways and how do you yield your power. that goes to who is number one. >> so many people thought it wasn't president obama. it's vladimir putin? why? >> i can only afford to speculate, but i know when we did this vote, we did it in the middle of the federal government shutdown. certainly, obama looked waeb ee he wasn't able to keep the united states government open. also, on the other side of that,

putin has asserted himself quite strongly over syria, you know, in sort of a mexican standoff, you know, over the chemical weapons. obama is the one who backed down. >> what about, we looked up and down this list and saw, it was angela merkel, just the one woman in the top ten. how does that, just curious, compare to women of years past on your list? >> yeah, angela merkel has also been the most powerful woman in the world, according to us, since we started doing this list five years ago. there are nine women on the list this year. that's up from six last year. and three are inaugural year. and i realize that does seem low, given there are 72 people on the list, but this is a global list. unfortunately, in many parts of the world, women are still somewhat disenfranchised. >> and finally, apple ceo tim cook, at number 19. i would imagine steve jobs when he was still with us, ranked much higher than that, no? >> i don't think he was that

much higher. he never broke into the top ten. there's only one active businessman in the top ten, michael duke. tim cook jumped a lot. he's been running the place by himself for a while, and apple is the most valuable company in the world, and it influences so much in terms of technology and music and culture and design. >> michael moore, forbes magazine, thank you very much, with a list of the world's most powerful people. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius on the hill today getting grilled over the launch of the obama website. at one point, she showed her frustration by saying whatever in a response to a member of congress. coming up next, a story you have to see. this ohio town coming together, making a terminally ill teenager's wish come true because christmas in this town is coming a little early this year. that's next. time, money,

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little early for an ohio teenager. this 13-year-old boy is battling an aggressive form of brain cancer. so the entire town is creating a christmas/halloween extravaganza in his order. we're shown how preparations are under way. >> christmas came rolling into town two months early. the ornaments are out of storage, locals are decking the halls, and it's all to see a twinkle in one child's eyes. >> never seen anything like it.

real thankful. but it's for dev. you know, it's not for us. >> devon coleman, a 13-year-old middle school opportunity has been battling an aggressive form of brain cancer for more than a year. >> he woke up one day, like the second week of may last year, 2012, and he had a stomach ache. like he was throwing up by the next week, couldn't hold anything down, dizzy. >> his symptoms have gotten worse and fast. devon's family learned this weekend chemotherapy has not been working. doctors have given him just a few weeks to live. his family and community realizing time waits for no one, decided this year devon will see the holidays. >> we want devin have to have the best christmas he's ever had, and we want to make sure he has christmas. >> in just one day's notice, residents came together to throw a welcome home parade for devin

and decorated the town for christmas. a local walmart has agreed to fund all the family's christmas gifts this year. >> i hope if this happened to my kids, the community will pull together as well. >> they want him to be able to see the decorations right from his window and know his neighbors are standing behind him. >> try to give some kind of lift to the parents to let them know they're not in it alone. we're here to support them. you know, me personally, i believe in god and i pray he's watching out for him, i know he is, and he'll be in a better place. >> crystal clark from our affiliate, wtol. merry christmas in october to you, devin. coming up in minutes, the president will be speaking live on his administration's disastrous obama care rollout. these are live pictures. you'll see the president in a matter of minutes there from boston. we'll talk about the testimony today from secretary kathleen sebelius and you'll hear from the guy who led the charge from

the president's side to get that law passed, rahm emanuel reacts exclusively to cnn, next. you tell us what you want to pay, and we give you a range of coverages to choose from. who is she? that's flobot. she's this new robot we're trying out, mostly for, like, small stuff. wow! look at her go! she's pretty good. she's pretty good. hey, flobot, great job. oops. [ powers down ] uh-oh, flobot is broken. the "name your price" tool, only from progressive. call or click today.

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servers of google and yahoo? no way. this is according to the nsa chief, general keith alexander. he's slamming a washington post report alleging exactly that. he said that never happened. he says it is factually

incorrect. he says companies like yahoo and google are compelled to work with the nsa through court orders and those orders come with specific requirements that are almost always linked to terrorist cases. not a good day to be kathleen sebelius. grilled over obama care and the launch of the healthcare.gov website. she tells a political committee today that she's sorry. >> i am as frustrated and angry as anyone with the flawed launch of healthhealthcare.gov, so lety directly to these americans, you deserve better. i apologize. >> the obama care website only part of the three and a half hour grilling. secretary sebelius got from the house energy and commerce committee. the rest of it ranged from cost and president obama's pledge if you like your insurance, you can keep it, to red herrings, red solo cups, and the wizard of oz.

throughout the entire hearing today, the healthcare.gov website was down again. >> president kept saying, if you like your health care plan, you can keep it, so is he keeping his promise? >> yes, he is. >> what do you say to mark and lusinda in my district who had a plan, they liked it, it was affordable, but it is being terminated and now they do not have health insurance? >> insurance companies cancel individual policies year in and year out. they're a one-year contract with individuals. they are not lifetime plans, not an employer plan. >> it's what they wanted, and i will remind you, some people like to drive a ford, not a ferrari. and some people like to drink out of a red solo cup, not a crystal stem. you're taking away their choices. let's put the screen shot up. i want to go to the cost of the website and talk about the website. this is what is happening right now with this website. we've had somebody in the back trying to sign on. it is down. it is not working.

last week, i asked for the cost from each of the contractors that were with us last week. so, can you give me a ballpark of what you have spent on this website that does not work that individuals cannot get to? what is your cost estimate? >> so far, congresswoman, we have spent about $118 million on the website itself and about $56 million has been expended on other i.t. to support the web. >> can you provide for the committee the list of insurers in the federal exchange who do not offer as part of their package abortion coverage? >> i will get that information to you. the website has never crashed. it is functional but at a very slow speed and very low reliability. >> do you have data on how many people in general in the united states have tried to enroll in a

plan through this website? >> no, sir, we do not have any reliable data around enrollment, which is why we haven't given it to date. >> i understand you have said approximately 700,000 people have applied for coverage via the healthcare.gov and state exchanges. >> they have completed an application. >> right, which is different from enrollment? >> that's correct. >> my question is, are you expecting -- i know you don't have exact numbers yet -- but are you expecting a large number or a small number of enrollments in the first month? what are your thoughts on that? >> our projections prior to launch were always that there would be a very small number. >> dorothy, at some point in the movie, turns to her little dog toto and says, toto, we're not in kansas anymore. >> this wizard of oz comment from my colleague from texas is particularly apropos given what we hear on the other side of the aisle. i don't know how you keep your

cool, madam secretary, with this continuous effort on the part of the gop to sabotage the aca, to scare people, to bring up red herrings. >> so the president ultimately is responsible. i think it's great that you're a team player and taking responsibility, it is the president's ultimate responsibility, correct? >> you clearly -- whatever. yes, he is the president. he is responsible for government programs. >> as secretary sebelius was facing those tough questions on the hill today, president obama was en route to boston to make the case for his signature health care law. and the massachusetts health care plan, it was modeled after. so he's scheduled to speak any minute now from boston. meantime, president obama's agriculture secretary, tom vilsack, was stumping in atlanta, and last week, the first lady was defending the law at a conference in washington, d.c. damage control or simply part of the rollout plan? let me go straight to our chief washington correspondent and

host of "the lead," jake pap ta, on the road in chicago, because you talked to rahm eanuel because he played a huge role getting the law passed. what did he say to you, jake? >> well, we talked about a number of issues in the interview after the speaks this afternoon. he talked about the rollout of obama care and the acknowledgment of the problems, whether he thought the white house had been holding back information. one thing i wanted to ask him about is this charge that president obama was disengaged. we heard people say this, because of president obama not knowing all the details of the nsa surveillance program, and then of course, not knowing all the details of the problems with the obama care website. here's what the former chief of staff, current mayor of chicago, rahm emanuel, had to say about that. >> there have been criticisms with president obama not knowing the details of the obama care website problems. and then also with the national security agency and the spying surveillance of our allies.

there have been criticisms of him as disengaged. were you -- >> that is the furthest from the truth about the president. i used to see him every morning. i used to see him every morning, three or four times during the day, and every evening before i went out. when i see him every morning, he had read all the material that was presented to him by everybody. and he knew going into the meeting what the assumption of the other side of the argument was, why he wanted to -- exactly what question said he wanted about whether it was on economic policy or foreign policy, so the idea that he would be disengaged is unless something happened, i have never seen in the two years of intensity when i was there, i just don't buy it. >> so a very forceful defense of president obama by his first white house chief of staff. one other thing that was interesting is mayor emanuel when he was chief of staff, brooke, he was very open about suggesting that there not be

this very ambitious widespread attempt to reform health care in this country. he thought it should be a more incremental approach, expanding health care for children and small businesses, but president obama disagreed with him. he talked about that at length also in terms of president obama wanting to hear opposing points of view, brooke. >> as you point out, the president speaking in a matter of minutes from boston, then we'll watch for you, jake tapper, and watch for this interview with the now current mayor of chicago, rahm emanuel. "the lead" starts in just a couple minutes. thank you, sir, for that. before i let you know, coming up, we're talking about a global wine shortage? indeed, it is true. do you need to start stocking up? what's the reason behind this? that's coming up next. first, heartache and loss are no stranger to country music stars. songs oftentimes capture the pain, the hurt around him, but clint black is taking his star power off the stage to make an

impact on a mysterious disease that has hit home. >> country singer clint black is known for his signature cowboy hat and his classic sound. but beyond the music, black is supporting the fight against a disease called rhett syndrome. >> my niece courtney, my brother kevin's daughter, was afflicted with this and lost her battle with it at age 16. >> rhett syndrome almost always affects girls. it's usually diagnosed by 18 months. children can't communicate and require constant care. there is no cure -- yet. >> i think the human knee jerk reaction is to look away because it's really hard to see. and it's real suffering. but the more i see, the more i see the families and how hard they fight, the more i realize we can't look away. we have to look. we have to see. >> black is the ambassador for

the rhett syndrome foundation and his efforts fund research. he says it all comes back to family and the music. >> i'm a song writer so i do a lot of self-examination. soul searching. so i have always felt inclined to do what i can. as i fight, you know, for my own successes, i feel like part of the battle has to be for those things i can help along the way. ♪

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something you may not want to toast to. the well is running dry. the world is in the midst of a global wine shortage. this is according to research

from morgan stanley saying more of us are raising a glass, but there's not enough wine to go around. so to new york we go, to alison kosik. say it isn't so. why? >> you know why? because we're drinking more wine. and we're making less of it. i want to show you something, i want to show you how wine production around the world has been going. production peaked in 2004, but the thing is it has been falling since then. it's at its lowest level since the 1960. at the same time, people are drinking more. the u.s. is the second biggest wine consumer behind france. clearly, not enough wine is made to meet the demand. morgan stanley said the industry was about 300 million cases short last year. can't believe it. >> can't believe it. i'm in napa in like a week. i've got the demand. we just need the wine. alison kosik, thank you very much. coming up, a story you just have to see.

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and that was actually the first time she actually spoke to me. she said, yes, it was meant to me. i was supposed to be there for her at that moment. and i was. >> and he was. and when he finally boarded her bus again, his passengers greeted him with a round of applause. that is it for me. i'm brooke baldwin, leaving a little early today because we're minutes away. here are live pictures of boston where the president of the united states will be speaking. keep in mind, birth place of romney care. we saw his hhs secretary facing tough questions from members of congress today. what will the president say? we'll take it live. jake tapper takes things from me after this quick break. live from chicago, back after this. sinuses are acting up. it's time for advil cold and sinus. [ male announcer ] truth is that won't relieve all your symptoms. new alka seltzer plus-d relieves more sinus symptoms than any other behind the counter liquid gel. oh what a relief it is.

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. president obama is about to

speak any minute as congress al janitors are trying to remove the scent of grilled health secretary from the capitol. this is "the lead". hey, massachusetts, you know that health care program you like so much? well, it didn't have the best first month either. that's what president obama is expected to say when he speak there is? just moments and we will carry that speech live. also in national new, he pegged the president not to pursue such a large health care bill, so what does the president and 's first white house chief of staff have to say? rahm emanuel will join us. and hold me accountable. kathleen sebelius taking the blame for obama care's websites woes. did she say anything that appeased the republican party? good afternoon. welcome to "the lead". a live look at nathaniel hall

where moments from now president obama will speak at the same spot where his former rival governor mitt romney signed the landmark massachusetts health care law which was used as a model to the affordable care act. the president is expected to say theirs wasn't perfect at first either. sure, that's true. enrollment was slow. but few are arguing that what happened there was equal to the debacle of the obama care rollout. there was little patience to be held on capitol hill today. sebelius saying healthcare.gov was down but it never, she said never, crashed. >> the website has never crashed. it is functional, but at a very slow speed. >> i guess it all depends on how you define crash then. so madame secretary, the system is functional? >> do you have data on how many people in general in the united

states have tried to enroll? >> the system isn't functioning, so we aren't getting that rely on able data. >> republicans armed with letters from constituents complaining their insurance is being canceled unloaded on sebelius today. >> we are responsible for the rollout. >> but who do you answer to? >> i answer to the president. >> it is the president's ultimate responsibility, correct? >> you clearly -- whatever. yes, he is the president. he is responsible for government programs. >> whatever. whatever? obviously taking a 3 1/2 hour pummeling would exper rate anybody, but she says whatever? let's bring in gloria borger and dr. sanjay gupta. fwl gloria, i would rudely interrupt

you if the president takes the stage, but we heard the health and human services secretary apologize. >> right. which we haven't heard a lot of. so she did take full responsibility. she said the buck kind of stopped with her. she said that also, and i found this kind of stunning, that no senior official ever industadvir to delay the plan. given all the malfunctions they knew were going on, given all the concerns about security, given all the tests that failed, nobody ever said to her, you know what, maybe we ought to possess pope this alwa postpone a little bit. so i found that surprising. >> and sanjay, i want to bring you in. and again president obama set to speak any second. and i may rudely interrupt if that does happen. but one of the pfof the big iss people talking about president obama's promise to voters in 2009 and afterwards if you like

your health plan, you can keep it. if you like your doctor, you can keep your there. and all of a sudden all these people are getting notices from their insurance companies canceling their plan. what's the disconnect here? >> well, the disconnect is there was a law passed in between and as part of that law, the affordable care act, it says people cannot be charged higher premie up ums because they deve an illness, there cannot be life time caps. and there were plans that sxu s existed before the law was passed that did have that. so those plans are essentially not available anymore. they're technically illegal plans. and people had those plans, those are the plans no longer available and they're being told they have to get a new plan. it hasn't been explained very well. you're talking about 15 million people who buy insurance on their own, about half of those will probably fall into this getting their plans canceled because it doesn't meet the criteria as they stand now. >> and sanjay, staying with you you for a second, obviously some

of these are mini meds, not very expensive and they are now being forced to buy plans that are more comprehensive that the obama care law mandates are more comprehensive. but not all of them fit that criteria, right? >> no. there's different level, different tiers of plans, first of all. but in terms of what people are being asked to buy or mandated to buy, yeah, you're right, they don't all necessarily fit that criteria. but i think in some ways, jake, that is the nature of insurance. like you don't know for sure what you're going to need up you need it. and a lot of these things are group plans. so there a lot has been made of males buying coverage that covers maternity care and stuff like that. part of a group, part of a society, part of a community everyone's paying into cover those things for the larger chunk of people. otherwise it would just be pregnant women who suddenly have high premiums when they become pregnant. so that's the nature of

insurance. and again, i don't think this has been explained very well. >> and gloria, i asked president obama about this in 2009. if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. and he explained what he meant by that was the government is not going to force you to get a different health care plan. although of course the government could create a whole scenario, a whole situation where your insurance company or your business forces you. >> blame it on insurance companies. >> live by the sales pitch, die by the sales pitch. the idea is maybe if the promise hasn't been as stark in 2009 and afterwards, maybe they wouldn't be facing these questions today. >> right. and i think the wording is unfortunate. i think now the blame is going to shift. we'll see some blame shifting going on to the insurance companies. and i think to sanjay's point is that they had three years to

explain risk pools to people, to tell young people why they need to kind of buy into this plan and ynk single men who are not married, why perhaps they ought to have maternity policy on their policy so it will take care of some of their needs. so i think the risk pool is something they don't understand and how they will be getting a better policy in if x. change f exchange for a little bit more hope. so i to think thdo think for an administration that has been pretty good at salesmanship, i'm surprised this campaign wasn't better. >> we don't cover the 1,000 airplanes that cover on time and perfectly safely. we are paying a lot of attention right now to people who are upset about obama care, people having problems with the website, people having issues with the fact that they're being

kicked off their plans and being told they he have to buy new plans that are more expensive or have higher deductibles. but there are people benefitting from obama care and we should take a moment to at least acknowledge that fact and talk about that. >> i think that's a very fair point. and look, initially a better description would have been insurance reform. but it offers to people who aren't joining the marketplace. so people who have insurance through their employers, they get some benefit preventive c, free. if someone gets sick, you can get to your lifetime cap pretty quickly. that can't happen anymore. and again, those are bep

benefits for everybody. so a lot of people are makinging a the lot of website. i interviewed the secretary about this last week. but the idea that it's emblematic of a disaster is probably overstate aing it. >> gloria, i think one of the issues is the salesmanship. one can argue empirically that being able to get health insurance regardless of your pre-existing conditions, no caps for individuals, and putting sick children, allowing them benefits that they weren't able to have with kids with pre-existing conditioning, those are all empirically positive things. hold that thought because governor patrick is now welcoming president obama in boston. let's listen in.